Sure, you can pretend that the rest of the world doesn’t really exist and just focus on your own life, but i think that people who are informed about various external forces at work that do affect our lives, are better prepared for what life throws their way. More knowledge is always better.

If everyone settled for the status quo, we’d get nowhere. Each one of us has a personal responsiblity to be engaged and involved in our democracy, if only as a voter.

It’s more than “finding fault.”

Even people who “have a plan” can get whammied by unexpected events. Life happens. You can do a lot to protect yourself, but no plan is perfect.

I personally believe that you are making people less active in winning because you are too concerned with having them focus on everything being out of their control, instead of allowing them to see HOW to climb those obstacles. People don’t want to know that there are obstacles, they already know that, they want to know how to overcome them!

Now for why I consider myself to be an expert in this area. I USED to do what you do! I USED to look at the supposed problems! I USED to focus on why things were happening to me! It wasn’t until I started reading more from Dave Ramsey, Dan Miller, Brian Tracy, and John G. Miller that I realized I was wasting my time, AND when I began to ask myself different questions. You should really read a book called QBQ- The Question Behind The Question, because I believe you focus on asking the wrong questions.

My life and direction changed completely once I started to think differently. I actually started defeating my obstacles instead of looking for who put them there. I now believe in myself and my ability to secure my own future, without relying on Washington or anyone else to put a rule in place that will protect me. What I learned is that there is hope and empowerment in realizing I do not have to accept your ideas and solutions.

With all of that said, I would like to respectfully say that we are hardly alike. Maybe you should re-examine which one of us is more “single-mindlessly focused”, since you are the one that is in the box, and I am the one outside of it telling people there are more options where I am.

I think this conversation is done since their is nothing else I can add without repeating myself over and over again. Thanks for the conversation and debate.

Read Brad @ Enemy of Debt´s latest article – Motivation 101 – Saving To Buy, Instead Of Buying To Slave!

The difference, I think, is that I also work to inform people of various other forces at work that are often beyond the ability of the average person to control. I’m talking about various government regulations (or the lack thereof), global economic events and just plain bad luck. You seem to be single-mindlessly focused on personal responsibility without acknowledging that sometimes, despite the very best effort and intentions, shit happens.

I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth but when you say that someone is FORCED to rack up debt, to me, it is just like saying it is a tool because in order to deal with the emergency the debt is seen as a tool to “help” them. there are other choices but you don’t wait to start making better choices and when you find yourself in a bad situation say you didn’t have a choice. The choice is to take control and make a plan before you have a problem! Does that mean that you will always be fully prepared for huge emergencies? Not at all, but you will at least be better prepared to deal with them. Medical debt is a different story though. I am in no way saying that people that have medical debt deserve it or caused it. What I am saying that there are things out there that come with a good financial plan that will help them. Dave Ramsey talks about a young family that the father ends up getting cancer and passing away. Because of the steps they took prior to learning about the cancer, the wife and family were able to deal with those things without debt.

As far as the Government not putting pressure on lenders, I will have to find you the stories, but it absolutely happened. It happened in the Clinton years and the Bush Presidency.

Even the worst medical emergency can be planned for, would you agree with that. Just because people haven’t doesn’t mean they can’t. Bottom line: People do not plan for life! That is what I am trying to change!

Read Brad @ EOD´s latest article – Motivation 101 – Saving To Buy, Instead Of Buying To Slave!

“For some patients, co-insurance may seem like a small sum — set at 10% or 20%, for example, when services are from an in-network health provider — but costs can add up quickly as absolute dollar figures rise. Insurance paid for 84% of the bill for five selected chronic conditions: asthma, breast cancer, diabetes, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and hypertension, the study found.

Breast-cancer patients faced the biggest sticker shock. Even though insurance paid for more than 90% of a bill that averages $66,489, they had the largest out-of-pocket spending, the study found. Breast-cancer patients paid an average $6,250 for their treatment. Patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease had the second highest out-of-pocket costs, at $2,200 a year.”

“When that figure gets really high, even though you may be only paying 10% of the bill, it’s still a lot of money for somebody of modest means,” Gabel said. “For some high rollers…$6,000 for breast cancer is not much of a financial penalty, but it is for someone earning $30,000 a year.” “

Again, Congress did not force banks to give loans to more people. Congress has no authority to enforce that kind of provision.

But you keep putting words in my mouth. I never said that borrowing money is a tool for lower income people to help subsidize their income. For many people, there’s no other choice. Are you familiar with the payday lending industry, where they routinely charge 200% interest rates on a loan that’ll get them through the next few weeks, til the next payday? People use payday lenders becus the big banks won’t make small loans. Why? Becus they’re not profitable.

As far as bankruptcy and medical debt, i think you’re being very hard on people, expecting that everyone should be completely prepared for every unanticipated life event that comes their way. That’s just not being realistic. Even if you have health insurance, the co-pays and deductibles can still be steep. We all do the best we can, but to expect that someone with a high school diploma who works at Costco earning $10 an hour who one day has a stomach ache and finds out he needs an operation for you name it can just whip out $10K in cash to pay for everything that insurance doesn’t pay for is pretty short-sighted.

There’s a big difference between someone who got burned by coffee becus they stumbled or were careless walking and someone who is forced to wrack up credit card debt becus they got laid off and can’t pay the bills.

Once again, I’m not saying individual borrowers are not at fault. I said at the very beginning that there’s enough blame to go around and be shared by banks, lenders and consumers, but i still maintain that banks bear greater responsibility for this mess becus the bottom line is, they had the power to reject loans for many people, and they didn’t.

and you’re right, it’s not just lower income people living paycheck to paycheck. I mispoke.

In that comment you quoted, I was specifically referring to mortgages. Congress forced mortgage companies to give loans to more people and I believe it was led by Barney Frank. The housing crisis launched us into this recession and I believe it was completely due to debt.

“I’m sorry, but if you have the misfortune of just a high school diploma, the kind of work you can get may be just at checkout at Walmart. People at that income level do indeed live paycheck to paycheck and it is rather hard to pay the rent, utilities, etc. without going into debt, especially if you live in an expensive state like I do, here in CT.”

I think you are underestimating what can be done by someone with a high school diploma and really it is quite disturbing that you think that way. There are many many people that are successful in this country without college. For instance I am one of those people you refer to and I have done quite well for myself. The truth is that I will be starting my own business even before I ever get a degree, and guess what, I will be starting my business debt free as well. OOOOHHHH! What you say is impossible is far from it, even for us high school graduates.

You are completely wrong about who is living paycheck to paycheck as well. 7 out of every 10 people live paycheck to paycheck and when you count the middle to upper class that number is more like 8 out of every 10 people. Income has nothing to do with it, it is behavior!! You’re right though it is rather hard to pay for pesky things like rent and utilities when you are spending what you do make on lottery tickets and things that you don’t need but want. It’s about having a plan and no matter how much you make, a plan will help make it easier to do.

Your assumption is that borrowing money is a tool for lower income people to help subsidize their income, but if that is true then why is there still so many people struggling? If it is the tool you say it is then shouldn’t it be helping people get out of trouble instead of just keeping them broke? You can’t borrow your way out of a problem without it eventually catching back up to you. If you don’t make very much money, then it is up to you to find out how to make more, NOT just sit there and stagnate and just accept your minimum wage position as how things must be.

I guess with your bankruptcy numbers you failed to consider the lack of planning that contributed to those bankruptcies. My whole point is that if you plan, plan, plan you will be able to handle that medical debt much easier. The truth is that those people that are elderly and filing bankruptcy did not plan for retirement but instead likely did what you suggest doing and that is borrowing money to get by.

No matter how many times you say it, I believe that I am responsible for me. Dave Ramsey has the best example of this when he refers to the McDonalds story about the person that sued McDonalds for getting burned by hot coffee. Since McDonalds served the person hot coffee, it became McDonalds fault the person got burned, but isn’t it the persons fault? Coffee is hot and you should be careful! Debt is dangerous and you should be careful with that too, because guess what you will get burned!

You believe you are helping people and I respect that. You are encouraging the problem by telling them that what they have been doing is NOT their fault, and I am saying maybe it’s time for people to start examining their habits, and try something else. You want to place blame and I want to empower people to take control of their finances. I like my way because I know my way works and your way just continues the problem. The victim mentality is a form of slavery and I am trying to free the slaves from their own peril.

Thanks for the discussion.

Read Brad @ Enemy of Debt´s latest article – Motivation 101 – Saving To Buy, Instead Of Buying To Slave!

Umm, how did Washington force banks to give loans to people in the name of equality??

I’m sorry, but if you have the misfortune of just a high school diploma, the kind of work you can get may be just at checkout at Walmart. People at that income level do indeed live paycheck to paycheck and it is rather hard to pay the rent, utilities, etc. without going into debt, especially if you live in an expensive state like I do, here in CT.

I work as a personal finance writer at http://www.creditFYI.com, and i frequently write about issues related to debt and credit, so believe me, i can’t ignore the perils of going into debt and personally, in my own life, i have always been frugal.

But i think that people who see the crisis we’re in today as a one-dimensional problem solely caused by individuals who wrack up debt, often becus they have no other choice, have blinders on.

Were you aware that fully half of the bankruptcies in this country were caused by medical debt? And that seniors age 65+ represent the demographic segment where the bankruptcy rate is most rapidly rising?

http://www.creditfyi.com/Credit-Library/Articles/Senior-Citizens-Unmanageable-and-Retirement-Debt.htm

Lax bank regulation played a big role in the mess we’re in and bankers, having the training and lending knowledge, understood the risks better than lower income people trying to get ahead. The banks were out for profit only and by looking the other way, made it possible for people who could ill afford to purchase a home to in fact do so. If the banks said “no,” we wouldn’t be where we are today.